Friday, March 27, 2009

A puzzle with a C4 point group!

listener4024_1

Back when I was a very casual attempter at the Listener, I did manage to complete one of Waterloo's crosswords (3959: And Now We Are Twelve), and a fair bit of 3928: OO Spectacles. I found working through the solution to the latter one of those really fun and enlightening.

An Additional Symmetry appeals to me straight away - I have a great interest in symmetry and topology, and this puzzle fits into the C4 point group - everything can be rotated by 90 degrees including the orientation of the clue numbers. Fun!

In the effort of wanting to seem like a symmetry smartypants I tried to complete the gridlines before I even got going. And following the unwritten rule, (s)PORTED is the answer to 1 across, and in we go. 2 down probably crosses with 1 across, and is D,(r)ETRO,P. Write it in as 2 down checking the D at the end of PORTED. Should be able to fill in a few now... I had 6 as PORTER thinking it was a triple definition, but much more confident on 36 as EL,IDE(a)S. So 35 down has to start with S... SEDILE (LID rev in SEE), good good.

Hey, DE TROP is PORTED reversed, and SEDILE is ELIDES reversed... is there going to be additional additional symmetry? Might it be crazy enough that the four quadrants themselves have some sort of symmetry? If that is true, then I probably have some six-letter words joining up to thr outer squares... 15 across looks like EG,I,L in MP (finding out that David Cameron is the leader of the opposition in England right now), and that would fit tantalisingly with that P in PORTED.

And this is where I came to a grinding halt. I had a bunch more words, but I couldn't make them fit, particularly ARMCHAIR which was one of the first cold solves I got, wouldn't cross anywhere that made sense. I had another grid that tried to force these words in but I think I threw it out, I meant to trash it... the grid you see above was returning to the ones I was sure of at this point.

Oh... what if these reversals of each other are meant to go on top of each other? Then the grid opens out more... That would make PORTER wrong, since I had (he)REWARD for 18 down it would be DRAWER (double definition). Start again!

listener4024_2

Things started settling into place nicely when I figured that out. The big steps were fitting in the eight 5-letter entries that started at the same numbers into the words around the outside. I had to hunt and peck to find the last few words (IGARAPE, TRENCHARD, GARRY OWEN), but once the symmetry was in place, things fell out in a rapid tumble.

A very fun puzzle that was right up my alley, there's been a few of those lately, and nearly caught me. Victory to George! 2009 tally: George 9, Listener 1. Current streak: George 3.

5 comments:

Unknown said...

George

When I saw your top diagram, I was sorry to see that you hadn't made better progress and enjoyed the intricacies of Waterloo's symmetry. Then I saw your second, completed grid and realised that you had! Like most of his puzzles, Waterloo shows a devious sense of humour ... or sadism, I'm not sure which. Great fun, no?

Dave H.

George the Bastard said...

Thanks for the comment! The top picture is version 2 of my grid, when I realised I'd painted myself into a corner and tried to go back to (the still incorrect) square 1. I really wish I could find version 1 to show how wrong I was at the start. I agree about the fun part too. I presume this is Dave from LWO?

Apache4D said...

I second Dave's comment.....I saw your grid and thought NO!!!! But was pleased to see you completed it.

I absolutely loved this puzzle, I too started with filling in the lines and there was enough logic to be able to get 80% with no solves.

I kept plodding away with cold solves, whilst convincing myself I had made some "logic" errors with the lines.......then in true Monty Python style I was slapped round the face with a rather large fish and spotted SEDILE <-> ELIDES....Genius, was extremely pleased with myself haha!

The rest started to fall into place (solving wise), but was gutted to see that my ARMCHAIR didn't fit into my newly constructed abode.

Aha, I had the 8's squatting at their neighbouring cells and facing the wrong direction!! No wonder I couldn't find a seasoning ending in LHNS.

Brilliant puzzle that had colleagues and friends viewing me as something of a pariah for engaging in such madness!

Been away this week in NY so didn't get a chance to look at 4026, so got one hell of a busy weekend as I'm sure you're already getting stuck into 4027.

See you all Next week!

Apache4D 10 Listener 0

George the Bastard said...

Sounds like we had almost the same solving experience. Hope you enjoyed NYC, I was in Salt Lake City, Utah over the last week, spent some quality time on planes and in waiting rooms working on the puzzles in my book of Listener crosswords.

Duncan said...

I really identify with your top grid, which is where I got to, in the absence of the fish-slap!